(Moderator: jchaffraix, Scribe: dpranke)

(Notes in progress)

How can we get more people hacking on rendering?

* accelerated compositing is tied to a layer (a very old concept)
  * can we make layers better or faster?

* can we talk about security and the impact of specific design decisions in the render tree (inferno, bethdakin?)

* jchaffraix: from study tables, thinks layers are the wrong abstraction
  * as a general rule, the render object knows what its own structure should be
    * because layers are generic, they don't know and have to do more work
    * they do too much
        * repainting
        * clipping
        * compositing
        * stacking
        * scrolling

* eseidel: layers are designed to allow the rendering tree to be lightweight
  * layers exist to handle the more "advanced" features of rendering
  * smfr: layers designed to solve problems like scrolling and clipping that affect a set of render objects in one go

* eseidel: what are the problems we're trying to solve?
  * (??) need render layers to support z-index (for svg 2.0 and z-stacking not in document order)
  * jamesr: we want to composited into svg
  * enne: rendering / layers are hard to test
  * dave barton: mathml is very painful - math layout is bottom-up from the children of the node, not top-down left-to-right on the page 
  * jamesr / jchaffraix: tables are very similar
  * eseidel: if you call setNeedsLayout(False), you should be able to do whatever you want inside your own elements
    * jchaffraix: this means we don't reuse other code
    * eseidel: there are other layout models other than the renderboxmodel
    * eseidel: also there's computePreferredWidths()
    * dave barton: this is kinda what he does in mathml
    * jamesr: maybe mathml shouldn't be deriving from renderboxmodelobject?
    * dave barton: but we do use a lot of it - maybe this is more a question about writing your own render object and should be in the other talk?